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Hi Mel, that is what i am wondering. when you say most hospitals "won't let me" what does that literally mean? I mean I get the impression they will not treat me? I don't see short of knocking me out with drugs or using restraints that they can actually MAKE me go into the OR...I talked to legal Aid and they said if I am far enough along in labor the hospital can't make me leave so I am planning on doing as much as safely as possible at my friend's home 2 blocks from there.

Mel, a labour centre mightnt even accept Chloe due to prior implications... Especially since hospitals themselves are insistant on c/'s. These centres are meant to be used for women, who havent had previous complications and want a less intimidating atmosphere to give birth in. It is down to Chloe at the end of the day. but if it were me - i would definitely be in hospital, id never be able to forgive myself if anything happened to my baby. If she were to try at home and anything went wrong, anything could happen enroute to the hospital. god forbid any such thing happen, but it is a very real possibility.

Hi to all, thank you so much for this dialogue! I have been declined from two birthing centers (I called anonymously) after I told them I had 1 v____al birth and then a c-section. Still trying to do what is right for baby and right for me. Keep talking!

HALLELUJAH!!!!! I have found a doctor who FINALLY agrees with us mothers that don't believe once a c always a c!!!!! Yipppeeeee. He is so cool and unique. He does have this lengthy contract type thing that releases him and the hospital from this and that and he has VERY clear groundrules that are strictly adhered to (no negotiation) but he is going to let me labor and deliver v____ally. I am soooo HAPPY I DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A C-SECTION AGAIN. I never wanted to do a c again, fingers crossed nothing goes wrong after all this fighting! Also I must note that since I am so-called "going against policy" my baby will be a__signed "certain rights" and I must agree that his/hers are equal to mine if necessary for a decision. I have always felt that way anyhow so no worries.

If your uterus ruptures during delivery, which is a higher chance of happening once you have had a previous c-section, the placenta will separate from the uterine wall and your baby will no longer receive oxygenated blood. Most times, the docs cannot get the baby out quickly enough then via EMERGENCY C SECTION, and the baby dies. Why are so many people willing to risk their babies' lives to avoid surgery? Yes, surgery indeed sucks, but what a small price to pay for a healthy baby! Doesn't it give us a "red flag" that women are having such a hard time finding docs who support VBACs, and since those who will give VBAC a try make women sign a form releasing the docs of any liability? Doesn't that sort of confirm that there are known risks, and that those risks are very high? I don't get it.

Yeah, I agree. Let me sarcastically paraphrase what I hear all of these gungho VBAC supporters saying. "Every doctor I talk to shares the same medical opinion about what is safest for me and my baby. However, I think I know better than those doctors and I will search high and low to find a doctor who will risk my life and my baby's life." Are you people NUTS?

Have you lost yours? Who do you know who has ruptured without pitocin? The risk with a low-horizontal is 1%, that's right ONE percent. The risk with an induced labor of any kind is....!%, so what is your beef? Did you not read that I already had a fantastically easy v____al birth before? That I have a tested pelvis? That

That...sorry....that my doctor has a strict set of guidelines and unshakable conditions? Where have YOU been? The only reason they have turned back from VBACs is due to a very small number of patients who had bad outcomes....now on the flip-side, the only dangerous time I had was when I started bleeding OUT on the operating table...also can be deadly for baby and me and can also VERY quickly rob my baby of oxygen. I am not an idiot, I have said before, if there is at any time an indication of ANYTHING going wrong I will consent to surgery. Unlike some women, I had a very difficult time with my cesarean and for some reason it is perfectly okay for a woman with a "bad" v____al to switch to a "easy" c-section, but not the other way around. I am offended since I certainly have both experiences to draw on. I will never jeopardize my baby, I am in good hands.

And don't forget, Chloe, that the only reason they are controlling your VBAC or C is because of "stop-loss" policies. Like a previous poster said, sometimes stuff JUST happens and people want everything to always go their way, and if it doesn't even if it was originally their choice to VBAC, they sue....I am not saying if the docs or the hospital screwed up, but many times it is partly the patients burden too. Doctors and c-sections can't prevent all problems.

I think you should check with a lawyer about the paper you signed agreeing that the baby has "certain rights." Does it mean that you could face criminal charges if the baby died? It almost sounds that way, and if you did have a catastrophic uterine rupture and agreed to emergency surgery (I know how low the odds are) it might be fast enough to save you but not the baby, and then, worst case, you'd have a hysterectomy, a dead baby, and be in jail. There is that case in Utah, where the mother refused a c-section and one of her twin boys died, and she is being held liable for the death.

Ha! I see some of the pro-elective sections posters have found their way here! To sarcastically say," I will search high and low to find a doctor that will..." hmmm, but it is perfectly acceptable to search high and low for a doctor that will perform an unnecessary c-section....this forum is now corrupt too. Chloe wants what the posters on the other forum want, a chance to make an informed choice based on a very solid delivery history and a wish to avoid a serious complication she had with her cesarean section.

Re: Be careful. The paper says in effect that if the close fetal monitoring registers ANY significant change in heart rate pattern, if blood ph's stray more than a certain percent of a normal value, if the contractions are measured at essentially more than a certain psi (not sure what the actual value means) etc. then the doctor advocates (and gets) a c-section for the baby. But let's be clear, that is only to ensure that women like the woman who refused even when her babies' lives were in danger can't do that with him. I know what case you are talking about and if I recall, that woman didn't want to go in for surgery as she had meth in her system and didn't want it detected. I am not a radical, I don't want to be so adamant that I hurt anyone. But I do know that there have been many successful VBACs and I know which delivery was easier, more enjoyable and had fewer complications for me. Thank you, though, for pointing that out and giving me one more thing to REALLY consider. I truly appreciate all your comments.

Chloe, in your response to "have we lost our minds?", I just wanted to let you know that I personally know of two people in my circle of friends who have had ruptures post c-section without pitcocin. One was trying for a VBAC and then ruptured during labor. Her baby lived, but has CP. The other was actually in labor on her way to hospital and ruptured in the car. Her baby died and she had to have an emergency hysterectomy in order to stop the bleeding. That's some scary #$&*, if you ask me!!!

Wow...seriously? I mean I thought I have thoroughly researched this. Thank you for your input, all of you. I will take a step back and check my emotions on this. I do not want anything to happen to this baby. I have this new MD's stats from the local hospital in my patient info packet. I will have to compare his "success" rates more closely and see if I can access the records of any ruptures while under his care. This is what I wanted, info, input and experiences. Thank you ladies.

http://www.expectantmothersguide.com/library/chicago/ecc-csection.htm No, you can refuse ANY medical treatment in any state, just be careful doing so, you need to be well educated and in good communication as to why your Dr wants to do one or it could cost the health or life of you or your baby. Also, you might want to check into this when playing mind games with Drs, I think as long as your baby has not taken a breath of air, you could refuse a csec up until the death of the infant without any 'wrongdoing' on your part legally, the Drs would have to let you, as they treat the infant more like a piece of your body than a seperate ent_ty-I could be wrong, but I think this is how it works. So if you got to the point where you were rupturing and the baby was dying, you could really screw things up if you refused before and say-went unconcious. My advice would be to push the issue up until labor, then if something goes wrong give in, if not, you got away with your VBAC. You might consider writing a detailed birth plan for your Dr stating under which circ_mstances you would accept a csec if things get real bad. Good Luck, I hope it works out for you

To "have we all lost our minds?" did you say that to the women who are looking for a doctor to perform an unnecessary elective c-section? You know, the part about knowing better, searching high and low....