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#1. Cheating is not a “mistake”. It’s a DECISION. A “mistake” is backing into a mailbox with your car or stepping on someone’s foot. “Oops! I made a mistake! I screwed the pool-boy???” Ummm … No, don’t think so! Doesn’t work that way. Nice try. #2. If one is unhappy in the marriage & they make that CHOICE to cheat, it is not the fault of the betrayed spouse. Only cowards & self-centered a**bags like to place the blame on the victim. It’s not about “letting the spice slip out of the marriage”! It doesn’t matter if there is something lacking in the marriage, or if you don’t tell him he’s handsome, or if you aren’t doing that extra special whatever in the bedroom! None of that c___p justifies an affair. All of that garbage is a pack of excuses & if it isn’t one of the above excuses, the cheater will come up with something else. (Too fat, too thin, b___bs too big, b___bs not big enough, your not blond, you fold the clothes the wrong way, you let the kids stay up too late, dinner wasn’t ready … blah, blah, blah … it’s all BS!) A cheater will do anything in his/her power to place the blame on the betrayed spouse. But wait! Here’s a brilliant idea! If the cheater is unhappy or if “something is missing”, they need to communicate with the spouse, not run off, bang someone else & create MORE PROBLEMS in the marriage, don’t cha think? Two people made vows to each other. Both people are in that same marriage. If one cheats because of one of those lame excuses, then tell me, why didn’t the betrayed spouse also have a “right” to cheat? The act of infidelity belongs to the cheater … never the betrayed spouse. NEVER! (And, FYI, you are not considered a betrayed spouse if you cheated first. That is called, “What goes around, comes around” or KARMA.) #3. If the cheater can’t deal with the “snooping” when the betrayed spouse gets suspicious or better yet, after being caught in an affair, then that is another red flag. (Cheaters hate nothing more than being checked up on.) Those who hide nothing, have nothing to hide. Once the cheater breaks that trust, it is up to the one who cheated to EARN it back. And sometimes it’s just not that easy. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice; somebody’s gone wish they had never met me. ;)

"If you have & he (or she) cheated again, that is your one story." <-- Hmmm I'm not talking about MY one story. I'm talking about dozen stories from different people. You can tell me I'm wrong, my personal experience says that I'm right. Are you trying to say that what I have experienced very close to me is not real? That a dozen experiences that I have seen at very close distance are not real? If something repeats itself 12 out of 12 times I think I'm right to conclude that this is pretty much the usual behaviour. Throw at me a bunch of web sites, a couple dozen books, your subscription to 100 support groups and none of it will change the fact that I have seen it repeat itself over and over again, every time. Like I said in an earlier post, if you want to believe, fine. If you are able to live with it you are a better person that I am, your level of tolerance and forgivness is way beyond what I could ever aspire to have. Me? I couldn't do it, the first time my wife cheated on me would be the last, she would be walking out the door in no time. I respect my wife, I respect the relationship 100%. Thats also what I expect in return. If she ever found a reason to cheat then the relationship would stop having any meaning (in my opinion, which works for MY relationship) as the trust would have been broken. As Kristi said, there is NO EXCUSE for cheating, its not a mistake, its a planed action. If my wife ever hurted me like that, which is probably the worst thing a spouce can do to the other, then why would I want to be with her any more? If she ever finds someone that fulfills her more than I do then she is welcomed to walk away but don't expect me to be waiting for her to "come to her senses" or for me to "forgive" her. If you don't respect yourself enough to demand your husband not cheat ONCE, then please continue to read all your web sites and books, keep going to this groups you talk about, do whatever you feel you need to do. Me? I still think that once a cheater always a cheater.

HA! Thanks for agreeing with me on SOMETHING, StressedToo. (Newsflash Oh, brilliant one, I AM Kristi … and “McKitt” in red & “Kristi” on the PORN subject. Notice the similarities in the writing style.) Are you trying to tell me that every single person you have known to cheat in the past cheated again? I don't believe that for a second. (Why? Because, I’m telling you, I personally know SEVERAL people that cheated in the past, managed to save their marriage, & then never again cheated … even 20-30 years later … till DEATH in a few cases.) I would believe if you said that each marriage dissolved because of that single affair. But you can’t tell me that they all were given a second chance & ALL cheated a second, third, however many times. Saving the marriage after an affair is one of the hardest things a couple can EVER do together. The cheater MUST be remorseful & do anything & everything to make things right again. The betrayed spouse has to find a way to forgive IF (& only if) the cheater toes the line. Both must be committed to repairing the marriage or it won’t work. Walking away would have been the easy thing to do. (In my case anyway.) But I wanted to be able to tell my daughter that I honestly TRIED to stay & work it out with her Daddy if & when she ever asked. Fine. I tried. Didn’t think for a second it would work. But to my surprise, IT DID! (And, two years later, we are happy & we are about to have a 2nd child.) He did everything I DEMANDED & then some. I raised my standards & my morals & it was up to my husband to meet my new standards after D-day. If he couldn’t or wouldn’t … “SEE YA!” Wouldn’t have batted an eye. And until you (yourself) have lived through your wife cheating on YOU ... you have no idea what you are talking about. Please don’t even try to insult those of us that HAVE lived it by saying what you’d do. Until it happens to YOU, you have no idea what you will do. (I always thought I’d walk & never look back. I was WRONG! And, to those who know me on my support groups & in real life know I am sooooo NOT WEAK. In fact, I am just the opposite.) I've lived it. I talk non-stop daily to others that have lived it & have for more than two years now. I do think cheating is a CHOICE. It was the stupidest choice my husband ever made in his life. (On D-day he asked me over & over, “What have I done? We were perfect!”) Don’t look at me as “weak” because we stayed together. I was one p__sed off b___h & was ready to WALK! If (not WHEN, thank you) my husband EVER cheats again this marriage will end. He knows this for a fact. Go to the website I told you about & read post from ME (Kristi or ToeRingQueen) on how I handled his affair. I wasn’t “nice”. I turned instant psycho b___h. It really wasn’t pretty. (People feared for HIS life.) The rules of this marriage changed the day I found out. * I * took control of the situation. My att_tude was “it’s now going to be my way or get the f*** out!” And I meant it too. There wasn’t a “waiting period” for him to “make up his mind” as to whom he wanted to be with! I told him, that day, to “GET OUT! GO LIVE WITH HER!” It was him that wanted to be with his daughter, & me not the other way around. He forgot about the office whore on the spot. The only mistake I made before the affair was putting up with his p___n/s_x addiction … and now you know why I’m so pa__sionate against that too. :)

Yes I am saying that EVERY SINGLE PERSON I KNOW THAT CHEATED IN THE PAST CHEATED AGAIN. That is what I've seen, to me that is the truth based on close-hand observation, to me that is the truth. You may have different experiences but to me they mean absolutely nothing, my experiences are what is valid to me. Here are some of my experiences: My Dad, one of my brothers, sister in-law, aunt, very close friends, wifes of very close friends, husbands of very close friends, they all cheated once, some got caught, some didn't but they all CHEATED AGAIN. Also, on your post: "He forgot about the office whore on the spot." wishful thinking! But if that makes you feel better... Also to this: "The cheater MUST be remorseful & do anything & everything to make things right again." They key here is "remorseful", how many are remoseful at heart? In my experience cheaters almost always have a valid excuse that in their mind justifies the affair. If you say that all cheaters are remorseful about being caught and loosing what they have at home (husband/wife, kids, house, economic estability, the dog, etc) then I would agree.

Dude, this is about the stupidest argument ever. Everyone knows that you think, "once a cheater, always a cheater." Fine. Many of us have seen different. It doesn’t matter if you believe it or not. It’s TRUTH. You can’t even be bothered with looking into some of those truths or facts. You insist on ramming your fingers into your ears while you sink into your happy place, rock & scream to the top of your lungs, “NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Don’t listen to facts. Who cares about books or marriage counselors! Support groups are lying! Listen to me & me only! What Kristi is saying is NOT TRUE! ALWAYS A CHEAT! ALWAYS A CHEAT!” Holy c___p, buddy! Take a pill already. You’re acting like a child. My POINT is: can’t you at least let those of us that HAVE survived an affair & moved past an affair give our stories? Let them know that, yes, SOMETIMES you can have a strong, happy, & honest marriage after an affair! Don’t you think it’s fair to give those, which are right smack in the middle of one of their worst nightmares, a glimmer of HOPE? That's all I'm asking. Do you always have to be "RIGHT"? Is everything in your life always this black & white? Even at the expense of people’s marriages & lives? That’s kinda sick if you ask me.

I don't know the statistics, but where exactly are these studies getting their statistics from? The cheaters?? Might I remind you that cheaters are liars and well...cheaters? It's like asking how many people in jail actually committed a crime. Well, if you ask THEM if they did it you would probably get a resounding NO! along with a yes or two. Do they ask the cheater's spouse? yeah right, Usually, they're the LAST person to know. And last of all, unless these studies are being done on dead people who have no chance of cheating again, they are invalid in my opinion because just becaused they haven't cheated again in the last 20 years, doesn't mean it's going to stay that way.

OK OK you're right, "Hmmm". Why even try? Why even marry or get into a relationship in the first place? Why don’t we all just buy some Jim Jones’ KOOL AID & drink together? After all, according to your mindset there is no hope after an affair. It’s just a matter of time before my husband cheats again. RIGHT? I guess I’ll just go file for divorce today, have this baby on my own & explain to my kids that this intellectual ASS on the internet enlightened me one day & I just walked away from it all. Doesn’t matter that our marriage was better than it had ever been. Didn’t matter that my husband had been treated for his s_xual addiction & had counseling session after counseling session. Doesn’t matter that he did everything I asked to save our marriage. Doesn’t matter that these kids will now be in a broken home, even though everything was headed in the right direction. Doesn’t matter that we spent thousands of dollars on professionals to help us get to this point. YOU say there is no hope. Fine. Now tell me, your ever-knowing endless bundle of wisdom, what are the next steps I need to take to end my marriage or better yet my life? I’ll be on the edge of my seat waiting for your responds…

Hi Kristi, my ex cheated. And cheated. And cheated. for 12 years. I knew about the first one. He left me for the last one, and our three girls. Anyone who betrays their marital vows once will have no problem with the morality issue of doing so again... and by the way, the woman he left me for, left her own husband for him, and now my ex is cheating on her. Some men change, but dont call it a mistake - it was a choice, like someone else here said. The base question is did his morality change? Or just outward behaviour? Morals are what they are, and the cheaters have shown what their true morals are.

"Why even try? Why even marry or get into a relationship in the first place?" <-- How about getting into a relationship where BOTH OF YOU WILL RESPECT EACH OTHER ALWAYS??? Too hard for you to understand that? And yes, most likely than not your husband will cheat again, maybe not today, not tomorrow but chances are it will hapen. "Doesn’t matter that we spent thousands of dollars on professionals to help us get to this point. ". I would be very depressed if I had to spend thousands of dollars so that my wife would respect me and value our marriage. "that this intellectual ASS on the internet enlightened me one day " AHA! When people are left with no arguments they usually begin the name calling. How many times do I have to post that it is your (pathetic) life, you live it as you wish, if you feel you are making the right decision then good for you! Just please remember when your husband cheats again that this "intellectual a__s" told you so.

"Some men change, but don't call it a mistake - it was a choice, like someone else here said." Girl, you are preaching to the choir. That “someone” that said that was ME! (Kristi & “To:stressedtoo” are the same person. Sorry for the confusion.) And I agree with what you said. The cheater must make major moral changes or he will absolutely do it again. My husband made those changes … both moral AND outward changes. There was no other way. If he wasn’t willing to make those changes, we were finished & he knew (KNOWS) it.

Wow! I did think you were opinionated, now I think you're insane. I never implied there was no hope and I never said you should divorce him and never even said that all or even most cheaters will cheat again. All I'm pointing out is that these "facts" and "studies" and "statistics" that you are shoving in stressedtoo's face really have no value because it's a study based on people who lie. In my eyes it's similar to gathering a bunch of pathological liars to do a study on how many pathological liars lie after being caught the first time. Did you know that one "study" showed that 10- 60 % of married women cheat on their husbands. lol, the study has such a big range because so many people LIE about it ! The last thing that a person who's cheating for a 2nd time on their spouse is going to do , is join a study and tell the truth. I don't think that the "once a cheater always a cheater" stands for everyone, but I think that it does for a heck of a lot of people! Now I wonder what kind of a__sumptions you can pull out of your b___t about this post of mine...

And when people have to be RIGHT just for the sake of being RIGHT ... they don't give a rat's a__s who they hurt, insult, or injure in the process … just as long as the a__s can be RIGHT. Right? If that is not being an ASS, then what is it? ASS! You are a heartless pig & you should be ashamed of yourself. And dude, I have plenty of argument left … I make point after point. What have you done? You do nothing but plug those ears & cause more damage. So, since you can’t just come out & say it am I to understand that I need to jump ship on this 5.5 year marriage with two kids & try to find someone else & HOPE that person doesn’t cheat? According to your math, it’s just a matter of time before my husband cheats again. (Holy c___p! What if the next husband cheats too? Go for marriage number 4? 5? 6?) FYI, I thought I was in a marriage that respected each other from the beginning. Didn’t turn out that way. (My “fault” … not paying attention to all the signs that he was a s_x addict.) After the final straw … we worked on our marriage & he made LIFE CHANGES. (He had to ... no other choice after the fact.) Now you’re telling me that I need to run like a little coward, roll the dice & try again? After what I’ve been through? And drag my kids through this c___p just because of YOUR theory? Don’t think so! You do seem to have all the answers. (Baahahahhahahaa) And you want to call ME & my life pathetic? Riiiiiiiiiight. What-ever you say, “STRESSEDTOO”. BTW, I’m curious, why ARE you so stressed? Worry much? Kool aid sounding pretty good to ya, isn’t it?

Well, hmmm ... I think you & stressedtoo are the same person. That is why I wrote that. If I’m wrong I apologize. At the same time … I don't need a tag team going here. Just telling you what I know to be true ... from MY OWN life experience. Call me insane … I care.

"Now you’re telling me that I need to run like a little coward, roll the dice & try again? ". Or you could stay like a little coward and don't value yourself. If you think that your best option is to stay with the person that cheated on you, excuse me but to me that is pathetic. If you need to spend thousands of dollars to work things out, to me that is pathetic. I believe I have all the answers that I need, I give and demand respect and trust ALL THE TIME, 100%, nothing less. If you don't have the guts to leave him because of the kids, economic estability, what other people might say, etc. then stay where you are. I value myself more than that. You seem to get in a knott quite easely, perhaps the one thinking about the kool-ais might be you? Too bad I won't know when your husband cheats again (perhaps you will not know either) because I would love to laugh my a__s off while saying "I told you so".

"I think you & stressedtoo are the same person". WRONG, I thake offence on that! LOL! Seriously, if you believe we are the same person you are wrong, I wouldn't call myself an a__s (not in a public forum at least).

Oh geeez. <rolling my eyes> I think you & "hmmm" are the same person. I know who I am for crying out loud. Arguing with you is like hitting you with a bat while you hold no weapon. Hell, you won’t even put up your arms to defend yourself, you’re too busy keeping your fingers in your ears.