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I found two other studies on start date and follicle numbers. One which compared start dates of 2,3,4,5 & 7; they found a start date of 5 had the most follies. The other study compared a start date of 3 & 5; they found 3 had the highest number of follies.

I looked at a few other things such as effects on endometrial lining and conception rates. I found a few studies which showed no difference on start dates but I did find one study that showed thicker endo lining results on start date 3 versus 5 and the study I mentioned above which had a higher conception rate (25% higher) on day 1 versus 5.

Everyone confused yet?

Sorry, I haven't written.... As you all know.... I had not used clomid yet... It showed up in the mail the day I tested posative for pregnacy... Later that week... I had an early miscarriage, or what they also medically call a chemical pregnacy that happens before the baby develops a heart beat. Again, I was not using Clomid when I concieved this baby....! My OB confirmed that the pregnacy loss was due to my follicles not being mature enough so she told me to start the Clomid from day 2-6 at night.... Luckily, because my body naturally rid it's self of the fetus that never had a chance to develop, I was granted a green light to start the same month I lost the pregnacy... She said, don't waste any time, that after a miscarraige, you are more fertile.... I started Clomid 4 days ago. I take it a couple hours before bedtime... Sense I use some thing called an OV Watch that detects your 4 fertile days before ovulation and does not conflict with your Clomid like the LH tests... I put this on at 6pm every night and then I take my clomid with it... This is what I'm using this month and other then the Clomid.... It's the same thing I used to get pregnant last month..... -(1) 12 hour Mucinex from day 1-a couple days after ovulation in the mourning(thins mucus) -(1 )81mg St Jesephs asprin in the mourning(thickens lining for implantation) .-(1) Fish Oil Tablet 1,000mg in the mourning( for healthy body a__sitance) -(1)B-complex with floic acid in it in the mourning (Uterin health) -(1) CoQ10 100mg int he mourning (strengthens cells like eggs, tissues, blood.) -(1) eavening prime rose *taken three times a day* (Unterine health as well as thinning CM and increasing CM) -(1) Prenatal vitamin with floic Acid in it taken at night (you already know what this is for) I'm like clock work with all of this, and I never miss a dose... The ov watch makes it so you don't miss a day... -****DON"T******** Forget to use preeseed during all your donation sessions!!!!!!!!!! So, I'm back to the TTC world..... Clomid is really not as bad as every one claims... I think alot of people are *TRYING* to find sympthoms... Right now, I have no side effects.... I've taken three pills and I'm aboutt o take my 4th tonight.... The package came a couple days sooner then the company said it would, which was kewl.... Although it had no directions, you should already have a Dr's recommendation or at least be well researched to know when and how to take it... I'm on 100mg a day... I hear that the 50mg hardly ever works except to possibly give you a period if you don't ovulate.... It really doesn't do much for your follicles... Alot more people get PG from using the 100mg.... I'm just letting you guys know, that I'm NOT TAKING CLOMID TO HAVE MULTIPLES... I believe that doing it for that purpose would be insane... I run a day care, and I'm telling you... Multiple babies is no joke!!!! It's hard work, and it definately tests the limits of your sanity... I have two infants in my child care, and it's so physically demading.... That by 6pm... I'm ready to pa__s out. I have them for 13 hours out of the day and can't wait to get rid of them..LOL I can't even immagine what it would be like to have them 24/7... Hell No! But, if I do have multiples, well then so be it.... I will definately hire some nany help..LOL Just some one to take over when I feel I'm going to crack... It's no joke though... Having more then one baby... And premature babies aren't cute... It's scary... I've had two.. 1st was 5 1/2 weeks preemie but was fine... The other was 10 1/2 weeks preemie and had a really hard road... Luckily he made it and recovered well, but three other babies in the Neonatal IC unit born in better condition then him... Pa__sed away.. Plus a group of triplets born 7 weeks preemie one week after he left neonatal.... Don't take this drug for multiple, but instead... Take it because you want a fat rollie pollie baby to hold....

PS I almost forgot to metion some thing I also used last month suring the nonation session... On top of the preeseed... I used some thing called INSTEAD CUPS.... These allowed for me to hold the sperm close to my sevix and not loose a drop... I put a few drops of the pree seed into the cup, and the rest inside me by my cervix.. Waited 15 minutes before love making with was perfect for foreplay.... After he contibuted from his on top position with my leggs in the air... I inserted the INSTEAD CUP to scoop up all the donation... I proped my hips for 20-30 minuites while hubby and I chated or watched our favorite TV program... I kept the cup in for 16 hours and then took it out... We then would do the same thing 8 hours after extracting the cup... This made it so it was like I was getting constant donations for 16 consecutive hours.... Then my usband had 24 hours to recooperate before I got my next dose... So I only spent 8 hours with out a donation... I really thing this helped.... It sucks how your body flushed out a majority of the sperm with in minuites after their donation... This CUP thing keeps them in... That way you have a higher sperm count and more likely not to flush out all those needed soldiers....

Hi Irish, where did you find your Instead Cups? I have heard of them before but haven't thought to try them. Have you also thought about Progesterone cream for after O? A lot of women seem to be using it. I think I'll take your advice on the CoQ10 too, besides that and the cups I'm on the same path you are, (my kitchen counter looks like a pharmacy). I am cd 32 right now and just waiting for AF. We kind of took a break this last month, DH actually admited he needed some time off, so we only BDd for fun. I keep thinking I should take a test and maybe all my clomid research was for naught, but I can't bring myself to get my hopes up. I think I should own stock in EPT by now. **Baby dust to everyone**

Shebastacey are you still out there? I hope you got your BFP++++

Hi Everyone, No BFP yet. But according to my temps on Fertility Friend I have ovulated. I think my DH is exhausted from all the BDing. LOL. I think we are starting too early in my cycle. My cycle is normally 32 days but on the clomid it moved to 35 days. This cycle we are going to start later and keep going until the end of the cycle. Basically I went from 50 to 100 to 150 mgs of Clomid this cycle. So far no side effects. Makes me wonder if it's even working. Also we've been BDing every other day but someone how I always miss the actual O date. I was hoping his spermies would hold out for two days but I think we will have better luck if we BD on O day. I also bought the CBEFM. I was going blind trying to interpret those OPK lines. I know you get a lot of high readings when on Clomid before a peak reading so I'm prepared for that. I'm going to get some Instead Cups too as recommended by IrishSweetie. Sorry I haven't been on much. I really feel like this is THE CYCLE to get my BFP. Hugs and big fat healthy babies, to all.

shebastacey: good luck to you in your quest to have multiples but I do have to ask. don't you worry about the negative side effects? I'm not talking about the headaches, hot flashes or mood swings. the whole reason to be monitored by a doctor when taking this drug is because of the danger to your ovaries themselves. i am in no way trying to sound mean and hope to keep from sounding mean in text, but i don't fully agree with what you are doing. it is not necessarily unfair to those who take the year/years needed to get their doctor to prescribe them as we could do this ourselves, but it is in a way cheating to self prescribe. i wish you luck and hope you stay healthy.

Teddyfinch: wow..... do you really think the drug is RX because of the hotflashes, moodswings, and head aches. Shoot, I get that side effect from caffine and alcohol... To be completely honest... The majority of individuals who report major hot flashes, and other issues are the individuals who have a hard time ovulating to begin with. Clomid is trying to jump start their system, hence causing adverse reactions. I don't feel cheated that we're able to purchase and self medicate. I'm educated and spent 3 1/3 years in med school... So, luckily I'm familiar with the procedures and probably better educated because I take the time to reserch and do statistics on the medications before I administer them to myself. The Dr's just take what the drug campany says and sort of wings it, unless you have insurance of unlimited funds to go to an RE.... Let me tell you, those guys can be very shady, and you can sing 10s of thousands of dollars into them. I paid $2,000 out of pocket for them to tell me my usband's sperm count was low... We went to our local dr because we could not afford the IUI and IVF to see what could be redone, they retested him sense the RE's office refused to relinquish the records... There's an investigation going on now as we speak, but there are other offices that actualy get away with this.... Turns out that according to my OB, my eggs are just surpressed and don't develope to size, so they never really get fertilized and stick... Proof of that is my recent chemical pregnacy with out clomid.... My insurance does not cover fertility treatment, as I mentioned before, so I reseearched though Dr's that I knew, as well as phamacists, for a safe place to get a generic brand. That's when I found Quality Generics on line.... So, you may not feel that it's "FAIR"... But you're preaching to the wrong peopel... Who you should be preching to are all of those actors and singers in hollywood, who pay top dollar to get pregnant when they want even though they them selves don't need it... Because they're willing to pay top dollar, it makes it harder for those of us who are middle cla__s to afford it.... Supply and demand BABY! As for the use of the drug, I know of at least 20 girls taking the meds, and the only ones being watched by their specialist are the ones who do not ovulate on their own which were only 5 out of the 20... The other 15 were diagnosed with unexplained infertility which is just anouther way of saying "we have no explination physically of chemically, why you're not getting pregnant". The drug is not unsafe is used wisely, just as any other legal drug... You don't see people going to the Dr for adbil when you have a tooth ache? Although if you read the side effect labels, you'll see a whole list of them.... It's just that the FDA has too hard of a time justifying regulating that... As it is, they're talking about regulating baby advil, tylenol and cold meds.... Listen, I know you don't mean to ridicule these ladies, but you should research more on the drug before lecturing to a fgroup of medically educated individuals... I do not endorse taking the meds for absolutely no reason, but I'm not turning away any one inhere because of my personal opinion. This is a support group. At least in here people can can ansers to thier questions... I would wrather that we are all in here working together, then to now that one of these ladies went and did this with out any one to turn to at all.... Which they would... You telling them it's wrong does not change a thing.... So a bit of advise, if you have no personal experience to add, then leave this post alone...

As for the rest of you ladies.... I'm happy to anounce that today is my fertile day 1 according to my ov watch... I'm using preeseed just in case my CM doesn't cooperate.... I take mucinex 2x a day 12hr intervals... I take 1 baby asprin 81mg a day.... I take fish oil 1x a day.... I take 1 eavening prime rose 3x a day.... untill after ovulation... After ovulation, i will be using progestrone cream to encurage a good attachemnt and that the fetus is supplied with enough progestrone, untill it supplies enough for it's self in the second trimester... Usually highly recommended if you have multiples sense they have a tendacy to require more progestrone to stick... Progestrone reduces premature births if taken through out the pregnacy..... So, I also use the preeseed inside some thing called an instead cup... (found on line or at walgreens) The instead cup holds the donations from my husband in for as long as I'd like sense donations will last up to 4 days inside the cervix. The instead cup holds the whole donation against the cervix so your body doesn't spit out any of the donation... I merinate for 16 hours or more, while walking around handeling buisness around the house... This allows more then enough time for my husband to recooperate in 24 hours, and offer me a fresh donation... Untill then, it's like he's giving me donations all day long.... So, I definately know it increases your chances. I used it two months in a row and during the second month.... I got pregnant which ended in a chemical pregnacy.... (no clomid at this time) Then that brought be to research what causes chemical pregnacies and premature births, hence the use of natural progestrone cream from ovulation on.... This is my first month on clomid, I have barely any side effects sense I take my meds at 6pm for days 2-6... No hot falshes, but a few minor head aches, and a little moodiness for the first week... I do feel ovulation aproaching, but no more then any other day... Maybe I just have a higher tolerance level and I'm not as much of a punk about it.LOL I am not trying for multiples, but understand that it can happen... So, I am prepaired.. I run a day care so I'm used to balancing more then one infant... By the time I get PG and have the babies/baby... I would not have any infants in my day care, hence being able to devote all my major time to my own... You definately have to plan ahead ladies.... Multiples are alot of work, but if you really want them... I would try a trial run first... Maybe donate your time in the church nursery and see how much "fun" they can be...LOL They're a challenge, yet a blessing for those who just want to concieve... I wish you all the best....

Question, why the baby aspirin? About a year or so ago, I had told someone on this board, who very much wanted twins, that I was on prenatals and baby aspirin when I conceived my twins and the next thing I know, she is spreading it like wild fire to take baby aspirin to conceive twins and no one questioned "why". I was taking it because my Cardiolipin Antibodies were a bit high so my OB had me taking it for the clotting problem and in no way did it help me conceive twins. I know this because I conceived twins 2 years before and obviously hyperovulate. Thinning out your blood for no medical reason can be very dangerous without talking to your doctor.

irishsweetie: i think u jumped on your soap box a little early. and don't pretend you know more about this than i do. you don't know how long i've spent researching anything. i don't drone on and on in my post about medical findings because, honestly, it's boring. and i told her good luck. personally, i wouldn't take this med unsupervised and if they are and don't need it and their doc is telling them to take it to try for multiples, then more power to them. i said it was all an opinion which i am ent_tled to. i wished no one ill will and i wished her luck, once again. and, honestly, who cares if the celebrities get pregnant? who are you to say that one of them doesn't need to be pregnant. neither do you, then. i say if you get that baby urge, then do it. i have been trying for 7 years with no luck so don't a__sume i know nothing about what's going on with me. so before you spit out novels about what you think about a person, do a little research on that person and try to be a little nicer. i don't know if you have kids or if don't, how long you've been trying or anything so i don't jump into making comments about you and i think you should do the same. these drugs are prescribed for a reason. if they were meant to be taken by everyone that just wanted multiples, then you could find it at the pharmacy in walmart right by the condoms and preggy tests and you wouldn't have to wait months to years to get your doctor to prescribe them. but their not in walmart shelves so obviously, they aren't meant to be self prescribed. i know a woman whose ovaries were ruined and had to be removed by clomid because of this so i don't care if i'm preaching to the choir on this one. i'm going to encourage everyone to keep being monitored by their doctor. i don't want to read about someone losing ovaries and never being able to have babies again because they wanted multiples this time and didn't need it but hey, they were able to be bought so they got them. i have always played devil's advocate in my life and you know what? i've helped a lot of people just by making them think. so until you've walked just an inch in my shoes, don't waste a second of my time.

Teddyfinch: I'm sure you're well aware of the difficulties of trying to concieve, but I just so happen to have a best friend that is a RE, and the best in NY.... So, I am a little more educated and I do have alot of medical background where I get access to information not readily provided to the public. Like for instance... Clomid is not "illegal" to take unperscribed or bought with out a perscription over the internet... It is how ever illegal to sell in when living in the US to individuals... You can how ever buy it for personal use, just as alot of people do when buying other medications like for diabeties and heart conditions because FDA charges so much that it makes it vertually impossible to afford the medication from the phamacies... You may think I'm comming off hostile on you and you alone, but trust me... it is nothing personal.... It's just that we see a million of these distructive critics in here who want to preach about messing with "GOD", and how the perscription clomid is regulated because it's "dangerious", which in fact, it is the safest fertility drug on the market today and one of the few that can be used with out monitoring if the patient ovulates on thier own... Multiples happen, and clomid doesn't neccessarly increase those chances... You still only stand a 10% chance either way, unless you get a Trigger shot that will cause you to release all of your eggs... Really, it all depends on your body really and if it ovulates more then one egg usually... Normally you will only ovulate the maturest follicle... Either way... it's a waste to discuss the "ethics" behind trying for multiples, and as for you rediculus statement of me "neither do you, then", in regards to me getting pregnant.... Well too late honey... I have two children that are beautiful and healthy.... Two wonderful boys who adore their mother and are extreely excited about becomming future big brothers to anouther blessing to our family... For your information, i do know the frustrations of infertility, because I was trying for 3 1/2 years and wasted thousands of dollars to be told nothing is wrong... But yet there is.... I am so sorry you have such negative, hostile wishes for my future conception... I feel even more sorry for individuals who would wish such a horrible thng as for a good mother to not concieve... Maybe you should seek therapy or some thing... After all, none of these ladies in here did any thing to you for you to wish for them not to concieve, including myself... I just suggested that you use this forum for what we started it for... for useful information on what we are going through while on clomid... I really am truely sorry to hear about your inability to concieve for so long, and I soncerely understand your frustrations, but in the future, i only warn you that no one in here will stand for individuals wishing any one to not concieve for any personal reason... yes, this is a opinion site, but that doesn't mean that you can insult individuals.... I'm sorry you find my information boring... Please don't read my comments then, because alot of other ladies find my information extreemly helpful.... As for you, i will be flagging you for poor taste,... LADIES: If people come on here and throw hostile words at us... Please feel free to press the poor taste b___ton and that individual will be restricted from posting on this site...

irish: you're a__suming again and you really need to stop. you say you're "more educated". are you sure? and how would you know if you were? once again, i don't go around tooting my horn that i know all and have all the answers. that doesn't mean i'm ignorant to any of this. and i'm sorry to say, yes, obtaining and taking prescribed medication that is not intended for you is illegal. and law is something i know about. oh, and please don't mistake me for someone trying to say that taking clomid is messing with God or anything like that. i'm not like that at all. i was raised catholic and we're taught that birth control is bad. well i believed bringing an unwanted baby into the world is worse so i took the pill so i'm not really one of those kinds of people. it's just not me. i suppose i wish you took the time to read my post instead of skimming and trying to get me banned for nothing. i don't wish that anyone is unable to conceive and when the moderators read the post, they will see that aswell. i believe your comment about celebrities not needing to have babies was the comment in poor taste. my comment to anyone saying anyone not needing to have babies will always be that if they think someone else doesn't need to have babies, than neither do they. i have never said that to any of these ladies and they can read that for themselves and don't need you lying to them about what you are trying to make them think i have said. read all my other posts. i talk about stealing baby dust from my preggy sister to give to everyone. yeah that's really wishing infertility isn't it? (and that was sarcasm in case there's any confusion) i don't know if you've come across people who have actually wished people be unable to conceive and if you have, then you're rightly upset. but i am not one of those people so *don't you dare* include me in that group. i have never and will never wish something like that on anyone. i believe that what goes around comes around. don't you ever lie about me again or twist something i have said to turn people against me. that makes you worse than someone wishing bad things on any of these ladies. if i misunderstood your post, then i apologise and retract what i said. and how can you tell me not to read you post when it's addressed to me. you went on about your medical knowledge in your post to me. i actually did skip your post to the rest of the people. you can click the Poor Taste b___ton until you are happy for all I care. A moderator will read what I said initially and there is nothing wrong with telling people to be careful and cautious about taking unprescribed meds. i've even said in other posts i'm not brave enough to do that myself. so you have fun attempting to snitch and brag about it. that won't stop me from telling people to make sure and give anything they decide to do that extra second of thought to make sure everything will be alright.

Teddyfinch: There is no "twisting" of words, and law is some thing I'm a__sociated with sense my husband has a Jurer's Doctor's degree. Ifeel no ill-will to celebrities, I only commented that they are able to get fertility treatment for convience which spikes prices for the common folk... I know of quite a few Actors that concieved with a__sistance and are awsome parents... As for you, I do not a__sume you are uneducated, or less educated, but I do know I am well educated in this relm considering it is my major.... Started doing med school when I found out I wasn't getting PG, and wanted to aid others trying.... I'm sorry you feel the way you do about me, and everyone is will conclude what you mean in your posts for them selves, but I'm just advising them that if they feel an individual is being highly negative to those of us on here, then to use the "poor taste" b___ton... Now let's stop wasting valuable space on the forum with our petty dipute and move on..... LADIES: How are all of your stats... I'm currently on CD11 and fertile day 1 of 4.... I got my donation, and plan on continuing untill after ovulation where I will then do the progestrone cream, and continue the baby asprin to help the lining and to make things stick... Good luck and baby dust too all..... Especially Teddyfinch... You will be in my prayers that you will have peace in heart and mind, and hopefully be blessed when the time is right.....