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Sorry it is a bit hard for me to follow your question..however, i will do my best..you see i am not completely familiar with all the short forms.. however....the only thing i could tell you is that if your are still experiencing pregnancy symptoms and you still have had a posttive pregnancy test and you are sure you have miscarried than you either could have retained fetal tissues left behind which is still giving you a positive hcg reading...or you could still be pregnant. So my advice to you is to consult your doctor ..have a blood test..ultrasound and a hcg test...and explain your concerns..you could even go to emergency if you are still spotting and they will submit you for these tests as soon as they can. I had a d&c last december and i had reatined fetal tissue that they did not sc___pe..therefore i kept feeling like i was pregnant and i was having excessive bleeding. Go to your doctor asap...Good luck Kristin

hi, I have taken tests as early as the first day of missed period and they have always been negative. I have a 28 day cycle and I never get a positive preg test until day 35 to day 40. the best thing to do is go to the dr and get a blood test taken to see exactly where you stand. I'm sorry I don't know much about taking temps, I have never done that before but I do know you can negative tests and actually be pregnant. Good luck

Hi Sann - So, it sounds like you ovulated around the 13th of March, which would make this about 26 days after that. I would think you should have gotten a positive by now if you were pregnant. Are your temps down to where they usually are before ovulation, or somewhere in between pre and post-ov temps? Maybe there is something else going on with your hormones causing you to feel those symptoms? Or maybe the bleeding was a very early miscarriage? I agree with Kristin - call your doctor and get his/her advice. Also, you might take another pg test since it sounds like the last one was on 3/27. Sorry about your mc in August. I had one then too and have been ttc since then. I did have weird bleeding this month as well - cramping and clotting around the 4th day of my period... after having what I thought was implantation bleeding before my period started. It's really hard when our bodies are so confusing. Good luck to you...

Tks you much for reponding, felt really down for the past weeks wondering what's happening. Here's my story ... when miscarried last Aug I was desperately searching for answers to why I miscarry then I found this wedsite which was a total comfort, my first post was in the" pregnancy loss thread". I miscarried naturally ( the sac just completely discharged and we brought in to the doctors for some testing) in the morning of the day that i was to have my D&C and had done anyway. According to the reports ... came back and everything was normal (in the words of my gynae it was just a bad egg or bad sperm) so we were told to ttc after 2 cycle cos I had no bleeding nor any cramps just spotting for a couple of days. we had been going for all our follows but we still haven't any luck till last month cos I did get a positive opk on the 13/03 then my temp went up to 37.0 for 9 days. Yes ... my temps are back to normal (pre-ovulation), call my gynae and to another test today .. it was negative. Perhaps it was just my mind playing games !:( I guess my body is just not ready for another pregnancy yet )cos it not normal for me to have all these clottings and symptons except for the sore b___sts. Aynyway..... cried a little last night (trying to stay positive) & ttc this month again. Val ... think you're right perhaps there was a fertilization but no implantation then a early miscarry that explains for all the symptons & discharge that I was having according to all the books I been reading. Tks so much again .. felt alot better when you gals reponded to my post. God bless & prayers to all, will keep you posted. : )

Hi Sann... glad the responses helped a bit. I'm totally with you on feeling frustrated. When I had the mc back in August I thought for sure I'd be pregnant again by now. I was thinking that I might have had an early mc this month, but just not sure. I'm going to see my ob/gyn on Monday to talk about fertility... hopefully we'll be able to take some positive steps. Take care and keep me posted...

Hi Val .... Did you take a hpt test .... if you have a positive I sure you are very safe. I was told if you have a very early mc you usally don't get a positive cos there was no implantation in my case a couple weeks back. When I mc last Aug ... I started spotting first and had painful cramps very much different from the ones that I was having during the last few weeks. So hang in there ... I'm sure you be fine. Just to let you know ... My gilfriend was going to have twins till she started having very heavy bleeding but she had no cramps at all. She said the bleeding was like a running tap and there was hardly any discharge at all for weeks ... after her u/s one twin just vanished. So keep your spirits up .... my girlfriend was totally positive and she just delivered the other twin 2 weeks ago. As for your fertility talk I highly recommend it ... My dh & I have been on fertility medicine(Traditional Chinese Medicine - TCM for short) for about a over a year now. I got pregnant after 6 months after we started treatment in Jan 2005. By the way ... we are from Asia so our treatments are of a combination of both East & West. As for MC last Aug our TCM physician's diagnosis was my uterus lining was not ready to sustain the pregnancy yet. We needed a little more time as TCM is a process of balancing our bodies back to condition to produce the right hormones & organs functions for pregnancy. My dh's sperm count & morphylogy etc has also improved after treatment ... he has to go for a s____n a___lysis (western medical technology) evey few months to check if the medicine is working for him or it needs to be adjusted. I was quite sceptical in the begining .... being asian I had doubts but we had some encouraging friends who were successful and we went ahead with it. However, I did & still am doing some research on TCM. This post is getting long, I recommend you read this book for some insights - The Fertility Cure by Randine Lewis, Ph.D Take Care :) :) :) & keep me posted.

Hi Sann...Thanks for the reference - I'll have to check out that book. I am definitely not pg now - have low (pre-ov level) temps and never did get a positive test. Getting close to ovulation again though, so I'm glad about that. I've been charting since last March so at least I have a pretty good idea of my cycles. (I usually ovulate between cd19-21.) Are you on a specific diet since you are doing TCM? I saw a Chinese medicine doctor while on vacation in San Francisco after my mc last year, and she recommended a very specific diet, but I haven't been following it. I am seeing a naturopath and she has me on several supplements and I'm having acupuncture 2x a month. I definitely think that eastern medicine has a lot to offer, and I like that it is very holistic. I'll let you know how my doctor visit goes tomorrow... take care! :-)V

Hi Val ...so glad that you are also receiving alternative treatments too. I have been taking my temps too since Jan last year on request from our physcian(she wants to track my temp for ovulation to adjust my medicine accordingly). I see her every 2 weeks and every visit I have my medicine adjusted to condition. I haven't started on acupunture yet let me how has it been for you(I heard it can help to quit smoking - DH & I smoke, our major problem and trying so hard to quit) . We are not told to be on a specific diet but I was told to eat food that are high in zinc,iron & antioxidants. DH & I, are also on multi-vitamin supplements, pre-natal & 5mg folic acid for me and Mega men(GNC) for DH. I have to abstain from "cooling" foods too like "iced waters", watermelons, pineapples & ice cream etc. Got my thyroid hormones tested too, I'm border line(4.24 & normal being 0.27 - 4.2) physcian said to eat more seafoods & seaweeds. Since last Jan, my BBT charts shows a 30-34cd & cd19-21ovulation for me too. We were told to start ttc every other from cd15/16 and after cd21I have to try to stay stress free and to have minimal activities. You've been great .... I had lots of mixed feelings about TCM, few of my girlfriend have been saying TCM Treatments are too long a process ( can you imagine being asian chinese) however few other girlfriends had successful pregnancy after their treatments and they are very supportive. Talking to you, I have more faith in TCM now, I didn't think that it was accepted in west even asian living in the west don't have faith in it. DH & I, do have a few western counterparts & friends living here who are very positive about TCM, "meeting" you is such a blessing. Will definately keep you posted. Take care :) :) :)

Hi Sann- Sorry I didn't get a chance to post yesterday - had my doctor appt first thing and then got home late. She said that my charts looked good - I'm obviously ovulating, so at least that's a positive thing. She tested my thyroid (don't have the results yet) and said that the next step is for my hubby to go in for sperm testing. I guess he'll do that in about 2 weeks. She also said to have s_x every other day from about 6 days before ovulation to about 4 days after. I like my ob/gyn except that she clearly doesn't want anything to do with my naturopath, which is kind of a bummer. I was hoping to find an ob/gyn who was a little more open-minded. My good friend in San Fran just had twins via ivf and was doing TCM along with western med, and I think her fertility specialist worked somewhat with the TCM doctor. If you want hope, she's definitely a success story. Although she wasn't able to conceive on her own, she felt really strongly that the TCM was extremely helpful. It's funny, your cycles sound so much like mine! Do yours alternate every month? One month I usually ov on cd19, and the next it's cd21. Kind of strange, but I've gotten used to it. I really like the acupuncture - it's very relaxing (I always fall asleep!) And quitting smoking is probably a very good thing. I quit caffeine a couple months back and have been drinking less (I like a gla__s of wine in the evening, but I'm trying to only do that a couple nights a week.) What cycle day are you on? Sorry this email is so scatter-brained... I wish we could have separate paragraphs! Anyway, it's really nice to meet you as well. Let me know how you are doing. :-) V

Hi Vai .... Glad that things are going well for you. I'm in cd15 today(temp fall to 36.5 degrees C) started to try again wish me luck. From BBT charts I usually ovulate in between cd19 to cd 21, no alternate or fix day for me, sometimes, the days can run up to cd30(last month was cd30 - opk tested positive on 13th march), think my cycle has gone crazy. Went to the clinic yesterday ... physician said my temp should fall today and she was so right and I totally surprised this morning when I took my temp. I was told to take my medication/tonic(don't know what to call it) between the days that we are ttc till I get a positive hpt and stop taking when I have my period(hope it doesn't). My DH, have had 2 seminal a___lysis .... according to our physcian, sperm count is basically about quant_ty, quality & viscosity(unless a man has got an illness etc), quant_ty in sperm count is a contributing factor but quality sperms is what she is very concerned about. She has male patients with low counts but good morphology and most of them have successful pregnancy. She believes increasing counts isn't a problem but quality is harder to treat & it takes a much longer time. After treament my DH counts went up from 21.5 million to 89 million in 5 months( I think that reason we got pregnant last year). Our problem ... carry the baby to term could be due to bad morphology/genes or my uterus lining(hormones producing enough hormones to thicken the lining), that's what our physician feels. All our general tests came back normal except the lining of my uterus(0.9cm-border line )& thyroid (border line too), we should have insisted on more detailed testings(DNA & all - too late! ) but our ob/gynae feels that 1st pregnancy/1st miscarriage - not neccessary. By the way, how did you get registered to the forum i can't seem to be able to register completely. Take care & keep me posted. :) :) :)

Hi Sann. I slept late today - it's one of my days off! It felt pretty nice. I registered on the forum a while ago and didn't have any problems... what happens when you try to register? Thanks for the info about the s____n a___lysis. It sounds like you are taking a lot of positive steps... If you don't mind my asking, what was the treatment your DH did? And what did they suggest about the uterine lining being thin? Is that related to hormones? My thyroid test came back as fine, although I'm going to call the doctor's office to find out the exact number since I like to have all the info. So, the s____n a___lysis is definitely our next step. Well, that and having s_x every other day for the next week or so! :-) I was expecting to ov tomorrow since I'm on cd18, but don't see any sign of that. I'm hoping I'm not going to have another extra long cycle like last month. It's already been so long since my mc and the random 45 day cycles add another 2 weeks onto the whole process... grrrr! Where do you live? I noticed that you use celsius for your temp.. I'm in Oregon, in the US. I'm glad your temps are back down... I'm sending lots of positive thoughts your way... hopefully this will be your month! Hope you have a great day...Cheers :-)

Hi .. Val ! : ) Didn't get a chance to repond eariler .. sorry. I didn't get a confirmation from the site, try to re-register but I'm still having some problems, I'll try to figure this(Can't post questions to some of the threads). So glad to hear that your thyroid is fine (hurray! 1 down so to speak not that you guys have complications like DH & I, think our bodies have gone "nuts" ). My DH has been taking a concoction(an average of 15 herbs), we don't exactly know all of the herbs cos they're all written in Chinese and our chinese "suck" arrrrrrh (shame on us :( right ! should have studied harder for Chinese when we were in schooi) I've been trying to figure that out(doing some research), once I get all in English will let you know. As far a the uterus lining in concern ... you're right! : ) It's a "hormone thing" .. that's what our ob/gynae & TCM physcian both agreed on at least, sometimes .. they have conflicting views but they're trying to work at it (still an ongoing research for them but statistcs looks promising). After last Aug, we have started taking multi-vits(GNC - prenatal for me & Mega Men for DH) , some of my girlfriends are also browsing this site too, found some postings mentioned GNC's multi-vits and tried it (got pregnant ). My cycle went "crazy" too after last Aug but according to the charts this month looks like its going be normal, well...hopefully, found some cm(transparent & stretchy/stringy) couple of days ago. I'm from South East Asia, currently staying in Singapore. But DH may be posted to the Middle-East, hoping not to go.... how on earth are we going to find a Chinese physcian(or a pract_tion in TCM) there, I wonder : ( Since you've mentioned Accupucture, I a__sume, you do have TCM phsycians in Oregan. Is your DH seeing one? Do they prescible medication? TCM pract_tions here have to be certified/governed by country's health ministry. I'm not very sure about Oregan but I think in San Fransico & Canada, there are these 2 TCM corps called Yue Yan Sang and Ma Kuang(will try to find their website for you if you're interested) cos they are pretty well known in South East Asia. I wouldn't go any TCM pract_tion that's not certified if we have to take oral medications cos I still have some reservations about TCM pract_tioners, nevertheless, we have be cautious and I mean it in every "serious"sense. TCM can be fatal(don't mean to scare you), one man's medication can be another man's poision, so do be very careful. Hope I'm not boring you, this post is getting long. Happy Easter ... Take care, God Bless & May both you & I & ladies who are ttc in Apr..... start a new post/thread ... 2007 Jan / Feb Babies. Baby dust from DH & I, keep me posted so looking forward to your post. : ) : ) : )

Hi Sann...I'm always so happy to read your posts - don't worry, you definitely aren't boring me! I did notice that the info on the TCM pill bottles was all in Chinese. I was a little worried about what was in each mixture that the San Francisco TCM doctor prescribed (mostly because of potential interactions if I take other herbs), although she's a very well known doctor and I'm sure it was all safe. I'm currently seeing an "N.D." - a licensed naturopathic doctor. She is the one doing the acupuncture. She's at a very good clinic near Portland. She prescribed a prenatal for me, and my dh is taking a non-prescription Men's vitamin. Wow, so you live in Singapore? Do you like it there? Is that where you grew up? I'm originally from California but moved to the pacific northwest about 12 years ago. I like it better here - most people I know are pretty mellow and down-to-earth - but many of our friends and family are down there so I visit a lot. So, my good news today is that I definitely think I will be ovulating within a day or two!! I have the right cm, and I'm going to go do another opk in about 15 minutes. It always makes me happy to know that something in my body is working the way it should be! Did you say that you started a new post? I didn't see it - is it in the 35 and over board or a different one? I guess I'd better get going. We're going on vacation on Tuesday and I'm trying to get everything ready to go. Hopefully I'll still be able to post while I'm away if my dh brings his laptop. Take care, and hope to hear from you soon! :-)

Hi Val : ) I look forward to your post too : ) : ) : ) You're definitely ready for "battle" : ) and heading in the right direction too, this time round it'll be a victory. Wish we have other choices too besides TCM. I've got good news too, kind of got a positive( 1 dark line & 1 slightly lighter one) on the opk tonight ( that why it took a while before I "return" post cos I wanted to take the test first so to give the news)but I'll take another test tomorrow night, will let you know. I don't mind living here, it's a metropolitan city (very psuedo-westernised). Where I come from & grew up .... that would be a long story .. will you fill in the next. I haven't started the thread yet, I thought ,when we get a positive hpt first, you could start the thread .. looks like you are going to get a positive hpt first :) Have a good vacation ... will be waiting for your good news. Take care & God bless. :) :) :)

hi Sann! yippeee... I'm glad you got a positive opk. I got one too last night, so you may be a day ahead of me! We're leaving on vacation so I don't have time to write much but I should have computer access so I'll check back in a couple of days. Take care! V ps- I would love to hear your "long" story...

Hi Val .... : ) So excited for you too : ) : ) : ) Time zone difference, I think both of us tested positive around the same time. I did another test last night, this one's TEST LINE is lighter than the other one from the previous night, I'm confused right now. So I'm not keeping my hopes high and my fingers crossed : ( Due for another follow up on Thursday/Friday no "set day" yet ... will see what my physcian says. DH & I, need a vacation too, have'nt gone on one for ages! Have a great time .. "vacation is good for Trying" : ) : ) : ) Hope this is your month. Take care & God bless. Hear from you soon : ) : ) : )