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Okay I am about to loose my mind. I just wrote you a book I guess and it kicked me out :( now I have to start over and I'll probably not get my point across as well. grrr Anyway I'll tell you a little about my belief system. Please don't think that I am telling you this in order to convince you of my thinking. I am not. Just want you to know how I think. Anyway I loved reading Pascals Wager and about his "flaw" It seams his wager is exactly what I was talking about (and I thought I was the only one in the world who thought that way).. Anyway I like to think of myself as a Non denominational Christian. Which most people might thinks is because I am scared to conform to a certain religon. Well I am not. I however don't feel it nessasary to allow anyone to brain wash me into believing their interpretation of the bible. I believe it is much more important for me to interpret it in my own way after all it is my salvation and my "forever" and I am not going to put it in anyones hands to gamble with. So basically I have read the bible and I have taken what i believe is true from it and I have formed my own opinions on it. My opinions do change from time to time but that is what growing within my faith is all about (the catholics can do it why cant I? lol) So now to address some of the critics of Pascals Wager.... Im only going to address 3 because I dont want you to have to spend all day or all night reading this book I am about to write you ,lol. But the first one I am going to address is the one where they say that his theory is flawed because it doesn't take into account that their are other religons out there that also believe that if you don't have faith in them that you will go to "h__l" or what have you. This is such a justified opinion but honestly here is the thing. I could have decided upon any of those religons and probably got the exact same chance of going to "heaven" or h__l by believing in them. However... I picked Christianity (the reason is a long one). I mean you cant obviously pick them all but not picking wasnt for me either. Lets say that your playing bingo.. There are 300 other people playing bingo with you and only one or two are going to win.. If you were offered a free card and the only rule were that you had to be nice to the person sitting next to you, you had to actually blot the numbers and you had to yell out bingo in a certain amount of time wouldn't you play? Now lets say you decide to sit out this round and its possibly the last round of the night... no chance in winning. So I took my free card, I have agreed to play by the rules and I try to be nice to people. I'd rather have a 1 or 2% chance of "forever" then have a zero percent chance at "Forever"...... Now on to the next Critic.... They mention that having doubt or not knowing 100% for sure is not TRULY believing and if you "Truly" really believe then you don't believe at all. Thats a crock of bull in my eyes. I believe that I have free will and that it is only human to doubt. I believe I was made that way. It is also only human to sin and to make mistakes (or else there would have been no need for a savior and we would not have free will). I also don't think that any "just" God would ever expect his followers to be 100% sure of everything all of the time especially when they have no real way of proving something such as the possibility of "heaven" and "h__l" So although I believe that there is a god and a savior I know that its impossible to truly know until its basically too late the real truth. As for all of those people claiming to have seen "the light" when they died and were resuscitated... I believe it was just a very vivid dream brought on by the body's awareness of its possible fate and the persons subconscious beliefs. I'll tell you what. I have played that passing out game a few times (when I was a teen). The one where you choke someone or hold their chest until they pass out and then you let them go and they wake up. I had some seriously vivid seemingly super long dreams in those whole 5 seconds I was out. I didn't however see my God....... On to #3 of the critics...."God rewards belief" or not.. the critics say that there may be a God that rewards those that don't conform and are always searching for the truth. Well I believe that my God rewards those that believe in his son whom he sent to die for my sins. I believe that one must believe in his son and his sons death in order to be "saved" because if you do not believe in something then for you it is not "true" therefor if you do not believe in a savior then there is none for you when you die. HOWEVER I also believe that if you are not given a choice to believe before you die or you choose (using your own free will) not to believe because you were misled at some point or another then you will be given another chance as long as you led a "good" life. I believe that chance will be given to you when you die and I believe that all "good" souls will indeed make the choice to join God/the Lord. As for the Jewish people just getting a free ticket in no mater the life the live... I think thats a load of bull as well and I believe everyone must live a good life whether they believe in the savior or not in order to get that choice when they die. (I know confusing) lol.. ......... ......... . . . . . .
Please don't take offense to anything I have said as I am not trying to condemn you or tell you that your belief system is wrong. Like I said I am in know position to tell anyone that. I never try to lead someone away from their solid belief structure. When I come across someone who is not firmly held to their belief structure or is looking for the truth then I tell them why I believe the way I do (this is not why I am telling you). I think it is my duty to god and to that individual to help them make an informed choice on their "forever" whether it be to believe the way that I do or to not. Because just as the last critic I mentioned addresses that God may actually select those who he believe really sought out to find the truth rather then letting other people tell them how to believe. I wont let anyone tell me how to believe because I don't believe its a good idea to let someone else gamble with my "forever" rather then making and informed choice myself. which of course brings me to the reason I initially asked you about your belief. My foundation is set but the rest is constantly changing based no the information I receive throughout my journey.... I am sorry that this has been such a long post. I look forward to hearing more about your belief system and don't worry I will not judge, condemn, correct, or otherwise try to change your mind. I am just hear to learn and listen and share.... Thanks,
Laura
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Another thing that I forgot to mention that is Completely different from most Christians is that I don't believe in Prayer. Well not praying for certain things to happen. I believe that it is okay to thank God but futile to ask for things in prayer. I believe that God is all knowing and knows the aches of and wants of his "childrens" hearts and that there is no need to pray. I believe that god knows everyones true desires without hearing them so there is no reason to ask. Just as someone knows there dog will want the treat that they have in the cupboard, the only reason that the dog has to beg is because its owner may have forgotten. I don't believe that God forgets so there is no need for us to remind him. I also don't believe that there is a need to ask for the forgiveness of sin. I believe God knows when we are truly sorry for what we have done and when we are aware that we have done wrong. I believe that asking for the forgiveness of others is more important because it falls under the topic of living a "good" life and being courteous to those around you. Once again there is no need to verbalize it to God because he is already aware. In addition I don't believe there is any need for a prayer to be "Saved" I believe god knows who really believe that his son was died for their sins" and I don't believe that god demands a prayer for such a rite. As for praying to give thanks, I believe that it still is not a demand of god that we pray in silent or verbally since he in my eyes is all knowing and already knows when we appreciate what he has done for us. As for things such as baptism. I believe that it is an outward expression of an inner faith and I believe it is a way of sharing ones beliefs and love of god with others. I don't think it is a pre-requisite to get into heaven nomater what age you are. If the Lord died for my sins and all I have to do is lead a good life and believe then what is the point of being "washed" of my sins if I have none to be washed of because they have been forgiven. Last but not least I believe that God has a hand in everything, good and/or bad and that although we have free will he still uses the choices that we make for good in one way or the other and to gently guide us along the way. He is sort of like a parent teaching a child how to walk. Except most will never fully learn. He is there to allow us to fall but if we allow he will always pick us back up and allow us to learn from each mistake we make. I believe that although we might stray off the Highway he has planned for us, take the access road the whole way, or even decide to take the scenic fun route that is no where near the highway, we will all still arrive at the same destination that he has planned for us. Our final outcome only depends on which ticket we are given when we arrive, whether it be a backstage pa__s or a spot in the mosh pit ;) (metaphor only works if you think being in the middle of a mosh pit would be pure hell, if not then forget the metaphor,lol ;)
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Can you guys stop making new threads for this dumb argument ??? yes, it's really getting dumb and you're cluttering the board with non-relevant topics.
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LOL freebird, sorry. We aren't actually arguing on this thread, we started it so that we didnt have to listen to the arguing on the other one, we are just sharing our opinions on this certain subject on here. But I agree his is not the board to do it. so Lin, feel free to contact me at laura_essary (at) yahoo to talk further about this. :)
Sorry freebird :)
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No worries, thanks for taking it private :)
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Wait a minute, why should this discussion be forced to be private? That's just silly. It's an interesting discussion, and we're being perfectly civil and respectful to one another. If you think it's a dumb "argument," then don't read it, plain and simple. Laura - I had a quick glance over what you wrote, but I won't have time to read it in detail until later on, so I'll comment then. I must say, though, that it's rather refreshing to meet a person who isn't afraid to talk openly about her beliefs. It's amazing how many people get obnoxiously defensive if you just ask them a question about their religion - like there's something inherently wrong with discussing it. I'll never understand that way of thinking.
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What place does a discussion about faith and religion have on a pregnancy/childbirth forum? It's cluttering plain and simple. And of course it's not being 'forced to be private' but taking it private is just the considerate thing to do. Just basic web forum etiquette.
And yes, I do think the other argument is dumb. That woman will have her u/s and post her results. It's not as though it's something that will not be answered.
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