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Wow, TC, you really know how to say things, I have read your other posts and you are very even-handed about things. NO, you didn't wish for a c-section, no you didn't enjoy it, and yet, you are able to see the most important thing about them and to remain positive. I applaud you. Thanks for your input.

Thank you Denie!! I must say that it feels good to participate in a non-threatning thread. That "elective c-section" thread is brutal!!

So let me get this question right. You are opposed to C-sections, but you are not opposed to doctors mutilating women with unecessary episiotomies. Maybe the women who want a c-section do not want their genitals sliced open. An episiotomy does more damage to a women than an elective c-section.

I send Kudos to ALL of you, what a civilized forum! I think it is a very safe forum for those who needed a c-section to get on and not get jumped for it AND it is a safe forum for those to post who feel something has gone awry! I think all of you ladies have great stories and info regarding the occurrences and neccessity (yes, here we do agree there are reasons for them!) of surgical delivery. Marcie, you are welcome here, I think we can all agree that while we think c-sections are being used rather cavalierly in many situations, sometimes even though a woman CAN eventually get a baby out v____ally, it is not always the best option, you gave it your best try and we salute you and respect you. I think this needs to continue to be explored as we may have gone too far in trying to "control" how birthing goes and a consequence has been as Chloe says, too many women "needing c-sections". Jamie, you needed intervention and we are thankful you had that care at your disposal. To TC, Maisy, Quite simple and KFish, great technical details and to the rest, great personal observations!!!! I shall look forward to visiting this site again!

RE: To Denie, I absolutely DO NOT feel that episiotomies should be done unless ABSOLUTELY necessary! I think newcomers forget I have had a pretty rough v____al delivery and I totally understand how that feels. I do not feel that episiotomies do most women a favor by any means! On this non-threatening thread we are discussing what has happened to birth and what is causing all this cutting of women. In fact, I think rather than hostility, we can include "v____al sectioning" in our topic if you like. Again, may we ponder if inductions, and too much epidural medicines are increasing the need for BOTH c-sections and v____al sections? No hostility here, your comments will be appreciated and valued in regards to how we can avoid gruesome episiotomies too! As far as doing more damage, I don't agree, just different damage, neither of which is desirable for the mother. And I am not opposed to c-sections...just wondering why so many women seem to "NEED" them now...not questioning the ones who ask for them, that is for the other forum.

As far as episiotomies, most women don't realize they have the right to say "No, let me tear." Prior to my induction, I had a very thorough birth plan that I discussed with my doctor, that included a "No, I do NOT agree to an episiotomy, and no, I will NOT sign a consent form for one!" My doctor was very understanding, and discussed perineal ma__sage with me, even to the point of teaching both my husband and I how to do it - awful painful thing, but there you are. And yet, here I am, still with this horrible scar across my abdomen.

It's kind of hard to judge whether or not a c-section was necessary once it's been done. After a c-section, there's no way to look back and say for sure, "If I hadn't been induced too early and needed a c-section, I would have been able to have a v____al birth, and I'm sure my preeclampsia wouldn't have progressed to eclampsia, with seizures or coma," or, "If I hadn't had a c-section after ten hours of pushing, I could have pushed another four hours and the baby would have been born." Once the c-section is done, we can't prove that it was unnecessary, and the doctor can't prove it was absolutely necessary. All we can really do is be glad we, and our babies, survived the birth. Even if only one in ten c-sections is really necessary (which I doubt) would any of us want to be the one person who died because we didn't have it? When my mother was having me, I got stuck. After 26 hours of labor, the doctor told my dad he could only save one of us, and gave him five minutes to pick. A c-section wasn't an option, they were going to crush my skull to save my mother's life. During that five minutes I was born, and both of my parents had nervous breakdowns. Now, they would have done a c-section before things got to that stage, and my mother would probably be upset that she'd been "forced" to have one. I've had two c-sections, and the first one was not my choice...but in a way it was, because I chose to get pregnant while I was obese, I didn't take any childbirth cla__ses (because the thought of labor made me vomit), and I couldn't afford to stay home on bedrest like I was instructed to do.

I agree with you and I do believe that c-sections are used to much. My point was that I think that women are choosing them more because of unnecessary episiotomies.

I can't speak for others, but personally I am scheduled for a c-section this Saturday. Orginally I was going to be induced two weeks early as they didn't want the baby to get too big due to my gestational diabetes, but then once the pelvic exams started, they realized that my pelvis was too small. That, combined with the baby's weight, would make it next to impossible to deliver v____ally. They actually gave me the option to try to endure labor, but let me know that I might end up with a c-section anyway due to the above facts. I said I'd rather skip the whole trying to push thing and go straight to a c-section as I didn't want to tire myself out and end up with more pain afterwards from double the trauma to my body. I wanted to be able to take care of my baby as quickly as posible. The Doc's said that was a good choice because risk of infection and other related illness came about more frequently and I would have more need to recover if I'd decided to try to push then ended up with a c-section. Another thing is that yes, it is convenient. I know what time I need to be there, there's no freaking out over my Husband getting home in time, and everyone in the family is able to plan around me. My Doc's were very informative and gave me all the options. Not all Doc's are in a rush. Hopefully someone sees both sides of the coin with my story.

Thank you, Layla, for your input. Yes, in your case, with the diabetes AND a small pelvis, you are wise to go for the scheduled C. This is a great forum because while we feel there are many unnecessary c's done, we are very understanding of ones that clearly are best for mothers and babies! I think we can all support each other here. Wonderful posts by all of you! God Bless the lady who was born right before she was about to be sacrificed...wow! Any thoughts on why there seems to be such birthing difficulty? I know that diabetic moms tend to have large, sometimes HUGE babies, so a no-brainer on why they can't deliver, but some of the other difficulties besides anatomical seem so...well...I don't know? I enjoy this forum so much!

To ..., I kind've feel like part of your comment was directed towards me, because of the induction, c-section, and pre-e; I just wanted to say - I have NEVER said my C was unnecessary. I just think that IF I hadn't been induced, I wouldn't have needed it. However, I HAD to be induced, for my own health. I realize that - but it doesn't mean I don't regret it.

Jaime, it was not directed at you, it was my own personal experience. I'm sorry it offended you. I had preeclampsia and had to be induced at 36 weeks. They tried to induce for two days and I never had any contractions or dialated at all. They kept trying to break my water and the pain from that was so bad I would vomit. Not only that, but I couldn't eat, get out of bed, even roll over. Finally I told them I just couldn't stand it anymore and if I was going to need a c-section, could they just do it and not wait anymore. So they did, and my daughter had breathing problems, which they said were because of the c-section. I think she was really earlier than 36 weeks, my period was too irregular to tell when I concieved, and I didn't have an ultrasound until 25 weeks. I didn't get to see her for a day and a half after she was born...I was convinced she had died and that no one was telling me...She was all right, it was just my imagination, but I remember waking up and feeling empty and seeing the empty baby warmer in the corner of the room...Anyhow, it took me a long time to come to terms with the experience. I felt like a failure and my baby felt like a stranger to me. I kept replaying it in my mind, maybe if I had weighed less I wouldn't have had blood pressure issues, maybe if I had been willing to try another 12 hours of induction I could have had a v____al birth, maybe I should have refused to be induced then (but my blood pressure was suddenly dangerously high, after being controlled with meds for most of the pregnancy). Finally, I realized I had to stop second-guessing things. My baby and I had survived, and that was what mattered. I had to stop thinking of it as a violation, and move on.

You didn't offend me, I'm sorry that happened to you - strange how similar our experiences were. I actually switched doctors midway through my pregnancy; my first doctor wanted to induce me at 30 weeks because of the pre-ecclampsia, but I refused until I got a second opinion. My 2nd doctor kept me pregnant until 37 weeks, with weekly monitoring. But, I did have contractions - I had them so strongly, that the nurse had the opinion I would've gone into labor that day even without the pitocin; but we'll never know. I keep thinking that maybe if I hadn't been underweight, it wouldn't have happened. That's why I'm not trying to lose my extra baby weight now...I want my next pregnancy to be healthier. It breaks my heart when I think about what I went through - because as much as I adore my daughter, and as grateful as I am to have her - I probably would not have gotten pregnant had I known what would happen to me. I would've chosen to adopt instead, and if I have a second pregnancy like my first, I'll have my tubes tied.

I had a c-section for my last pregnancy. When I first became pregnant, I worked with a mid-wife a kaiser. I did not want a c-section. I wanted a natural birth and I did not want an episiodomy (sp?). At 25 weeks I got gestational diabetis. At 31 weeks, i was diagnosed with pre-clampsia. Everytime I was getting a Non-stress test, I was hospitalized for high blood pressure. Finally at 35 weeks, the protien in my urine were at high levels and my liver panel was not looking good. I had a ballon put in my cervix to start the dialation process. They wanted to see if I could deliver naturally. I was also given petocin and magnesium, to control the blood pressure. Anyone who had pre-clampsia knows that magnesium and petocin counteract eachother. After getting sick after every meal because of the magnesium, they put me on an IV. My water broke after the ballon was put in my cervix. After 48 hours of the magnesium and petocin, I only dilated up to 2 cm and, although the monitor was showing contractions, I was not feeling anything. I was begging for a c-section. I was so relieved after the c-section. My husband stayed in the nursery and my son was brought to me 4 hours later. Though I was not gungho on c-sections, I know that it sometimes is necessary. My recovery was long and after a year, I still had pain in my scar area. I think that is why I am a little against "elective" c-sections. I respect their right to choose, but I do not believe young first time mothers realize the recovery process and they believe it is an "easy' birth.

It is unfortunate of all that you went through for the birth of your baby. But all that matters is that you do have a healthy baby and you are both okay now. As much as doctors are too quick to perform c-sections today, I also do think that doctors take trying to make a woman deliver naturally a bit too far as well. Your recovery may not have been that long had you not gone though 48 hours of the magnesium and petocin and the balloon. All of this and the drugs, while it can a__sist a woman in delivering a baby naturally is also artificial. On another note, when I told a doctor once that I did not want an episiotomy, he had the nerve to say to me that he finds episiotomies very helpful and useful. He said that episiotomies decrease the c-section rate. That is just outrageous. If I had a choice of having my genitals mutilated and having a c-section, I would definitely choose the c-section. Some women even if they tell their doctor they do not want an episiotomy, they end up with one anyway if the baby has to be delivered quickly. So while some doctors are too quick to perform c-sections, they also keep a woman in labour way too long trying to make her deliver naturally and they are too quick or liberal performing episiotomies. While I am not saying that a c-section is any better, making a woman labour for 48+ hours to try and achieve a v____al delivery and injecting her with all kinds of drugs, petocin, etc. is not any good for her and the baby either. And it is more frustrating and disappointing for the woman when a doctor lets her go for that long trying to deliver naturally and she ends up with a c-section anyway. That just makes a woman's recovery soooooo much longer because she has gone though two kinds of birth.

Very well said KFish!!