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Oh, and change "most of our cities" to "some of our cities"

Wow Jamie, good point. I'm in the USA and I never realized New Zealand was so small!!! OMG, no wonder their rates are so low, it would be cake to maintain a country with a population LOWER than 1/2 of New York City alone!!!

Crime in New Zealand...I think the original poster was looking at per capita rather than overall crime. The US has four times as much crime per capita as New Zealand, but their laws and cla__sifications of crimes are different than ours, so it's not that simple to compare.

I think spanking teaches children to solve problems with violence. It also loses their sense of respect and why thier being hit being lost. I've seen children hit other children in ways that parents hit them. As a last resort a smack on the hand I can probably agree with parents but I don't agree in using object to hit or to hit any other body part. Hitting may be legal to use as a discipline method but from what I know its illegal to hit your child with an object. There are other ways to discipline that bring on more appropriate behaviour using a type of middle parenting style. It really depends on the type of parenting style. Are you 1. too strict(authoritative)use violence, rules with no explainations, ------------------2. too lenient(permissve style)give in, love too much to say no, let the child do whatever they want, don't reprimand or -----------------------3. in the middle(authoritarian) rules with explanations, consequences to behaviour awarded/reprimanded. If your in the middle, you are more likely to have children who will be more independent and responsible.

JBear, population density plays a BIG role in crime, which is why small towns have less crime than medium towns which have less crime than big cities. New Zealand is not as crowded as some parts of the United States. Now, back to the original topic - I was spanked as a child - I think maybe a total of 3 times by my father, once by my mother, and I lost track of how many times my ex-stepfather hit me. Which is why he's my EX stepfather. I completely respect my father, I think my mother is a fruitcake, and my ex stepfather is an ********* who should be locked up in a very small, deep, dark, dank dungeon somewhere and forgotten for all eternity. (Except that fate might be too kind.) I also have a sense of morality and I believe that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. I do NOT believe that "spanking" will lead to a violent lifestyle. "Spanking" defined as an open-hand slap on the bottom. Heck, even if you beat a kid til they're black and blue, it doesn't guarantee they will grow up and do the same to their own children. I certainly will never hurt my daughter, and my older brother has never once touched his 6 year old daughter or 2 year old son, and my exstepfather put him in the hospital. It is the example we set and create for our children that will help them become adults. If you react violently to every situation, yes, the child will learn to react violently. If you attempt to reason through problems, your child will learn that. If a 3 year old calls someone a "b___h", for example, you might try to tell that three year old not to use that language. He repeats the word, you give him a time-out. Days later, despite consistent punishment for the word, he *still* says it, a harsher punishment could be called for - a spanking. One open hand slap on the bottom, and only because other methods have failed.

I do not plan to spank, for reasons I outlined in a previous spanking post. Plus, my boy is just too darn cute to get his b___t smacked. I can't imagine taking a hand to the person that I adore the most in this world. I am not here to judge anyone for their decisions about how to raise their children. I used to be more of a finger pointer but I have learned to relax and mind my own business:) I find it interesting that when a controversial topic is posted, the person never leaves their usual posting name. Hmmm?

Spanking is abuse

Well iam all for what Jbear says. and others. When and especially when the childs life is in dangour....spanking/taping is in order. i had troubles with my daughter to for the road....but after her spanking she never went near it!!! (not saying anything big her...but just enough to pinch and insult her) And when my son runs to a hot oven, when i say no...a spank is alos in order. its dangerous!!! But i alos think when they start walking and running and you have tried everything with them..including pulling them away from situation..several times...then a tap on the hand..works good. or raising my voice.

I think spanking is O.K. if you use it wisely. I was spanked as a child & there is only 1 instance that I can remember and what I did to get that spanking NEVER happened again. I think a lot of parent suse spanking *too* much - as every day discipline and I think it should be reserved for the absolute worse "violations" or whatever you want to call them. If used properly spanking can teach children discipline and respect, if used improperly it can casue feelings of fear, abandonment, low self ecteem, etc.etc. I think many of the youth today don't have any respect for other people and some of the lack of respect comes from a total lack of discipline and control on from their parents. Some of it comes from parents too worried about their children liking them and afraid that if they actually "parent" thier kids, then they won;t be frineds with their kids anymore. I am not against spanking y child and also think it depends on the child. If my mother had tried to put me in time out when I was little it would have nevre have worked. I NEEDED a spanking to keep my a__s in line.

Each generation is getting worse and worse, so it's necessary to evaluate the parenting. With all of the child development being taught in psychology and in parenting cla__ses today, you'd think we'd have the best kids on the planet....but the opposite is true...Our society is so "liberated" now that kids have freedoms that adults have...I see kids telling their parents what to do and the parents saying, "okay". Kids want discipline! Kids feel loved when there are rules that are enforced! I thank my parents for all of the discipline they gave me and for the occa__sional spankings...I wasn't afraid of them for spanking me...I had a healthy fear of my parents. I knew better than to curse them out, try to fight them, etc....At the same time, I knew that I could go to them with any of my problems and that they would do their best to help me...they are still there for me to this day...that's respect.

Lynn, I agree with that post 100%. so true...

In this day and age when spanking is considered abuse is so sad. I don't agree with beatings at all, but saying a spanking is abuse is very inaccurate. If things keep going on this way, in 10 years people are going to be looking at you horrified saying "OMG, YOU PUT YOUR KIDS IN TIME OUT? CHILD ABUSER!" That's how I'm expecting things to be.

well, I'm glad you have decided not to and I hope you stick with that choice through thick and thin. I have never spanked and I have a very good and well behaved 9 yr old and a 7 month old. Never did it, never will. There are always other ways than inflicting pain or fear into children.

I am defenetly not planning on doing any spanking!!!

THERE YOU GO...READ ERICA'S EXAMPLE. one of the many reasons one shouldn't spank. Why PLAN on that, why don't you plan on other things...like playing with your child, sending your child to college, plan a vacation! but not wether your going to spank or not!