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No, after reading just a few of those women's stories on that site, v____al birth sounds anything but natural. I feel so sorry for some of those women. One woman had a VBAC and said that a c-section isn't SO bad once you get past the first couple of days whereas her v____al recovery seems to be lingering longer.

Vaginal births are closer to "natural" than an abdominal cut. Why are people so weird about this? I think people are posting under different names to advance their opinion of vag v.s c-section and their "horrible" recoveries.

No one has to post under different names to advance their opinion of v____al v. c-section births. It is an unfortunate reality but natural is sometimes not always natural. And a c-section is not the simple surgery some make it out to be. I did read some of the women's experiences from the site Ca__sie posted about and no one could make up those horrible details of what happened to them during and after their v____al births and what they are going through.

Why don't people get a life!!!!! No matter which way a woman gives birth she may have to have a surgical cut - either v____ally or abdominally and both methods of birth can have long lasting consequences for her. Whether childbirth is easy or difficult, long or short, natural or operative, one fact remains constant - a woman's body will never be exactly the same after pregnancy, labor, and delivery, as it was beforehand. That is reality.

There is nothing natural about v____al birth when the doctor cuts your v____a all the way down to the rectum to get the baby out. My baby's head was huge and the doctor did not have a choice in the matter. There was not enough time to get a c-section by the time the doctor realized how big her head was. She was only 6 pounds, 8 ounces but she had a big head. Because of this "v____al cut" which is supposed to be closer to natural childbirth than an abdominal cut my life has been ruined. After the birth I've had surgeries to try and rectify the rectal/a___l problems my episiotomy created with no success. And let's not forget the hemmerhoids (sp)!!! So I did have a surgical v____al birth - I had my bottom/v____a sectioned instead of my abdomen. A c-section in all likelihood would not have created the direct damage to my v____al/rectal/a___l area that the v____al birth did. Now that the damage has already been done, if I ever have another baby it will be by elective c-section.

To last poster, so why do you want to create another disaster zone?

If you talk in English maybe I will know what you are referring to? Create another disaster zone? I just told of my experience and said that since I am too damaged to have another baby the "natural" way that if I ever have another baby it will be by elective c-section. Do you have an issue with that? I did not create the original post. I am just replying to it.

OUCH! I meant... why cause another area of cut, st_tched, scarred and wounded tissue and structure?

to the poster who keeps posting "..to Maisy...or to Erin..." You are very, very bitter, and rather vicious to others. I feel badly for you. You had a very difficult time with your birth and lasting damage some of it to your psyche. Perhaps instead of bitterly going after those who have had bad c-section experiences, you should examine your unresolved grief over what has happened to your poor body. Others do care that you were powerless to stop the damage and we are sorry for you. It doesn't mean a c-section would have prevented a whole list of different damages and complications however. I think before you put such high expectations on a cesarean delivery you explore more how you may continue to repair the injuries you have already suffered. I was told such wonderful stories of how a planned c-section was going to save me so much pain, trauma, damage, etc. NONE of it turned out to be true at all and I feel very, very lied to. Hope you find a way to get over your trauma.

I am not bitter and I am not vicious to other posters. To Erin, if I offended you I do apologize. But your message to me was not clear by saying "so why do you want to create another disaster zone?" It was a little ambiguous. Again, I am very sorry. It does, however, annoy me when people get on this forum and promote v____al birth as all natural when my own doctor said that I would have faired off better with a c-section. I know c-sections create their own set of problems but when a birth which so many people call natural (a v____al one) disrupts a person's quality of life (and I am not the only one who was damaged by a v____al birth) there is an issue here and you cannot blame a women for thinking that a c-section may have spared her the damage the v____al birth caused, even if a c-section would have given her a whole other set of problems. Going to the bathroom is something we all take for granted and nature did not intend for our lives to be so disrupted by using our bodies to deliver a baby. That's all that I am saying. To Lissa, the doctors did all they could to repair the injuries and damage I suffered from the v____al birth. My psyche is not damaged and I am over my trauma. Just like you have a right to feel that you were lied to about your c-section experience, I have every right to feel that if I had a c-section I may not be experiencing some of the direct v____al/a___l damage I am now suffering from. That's all that I am saying. I hope you are both having a great week and are enjoying your little ones.

I think the bottom line here is that both v____al birth and c-sections do and can cause damage and that not one type of birth is superior to the other. Both types can severely damage a woman and her quality of life. There are no guarantees by a woman having either type of birth.

To poster, you are right. In your case it sounds like a c-section might have spared you your lasting problems. The wee one is fine and growing. Thanks. And I also agree, that v____al births are not all they are cracked up to be. I do feel that much of women's suffering is TOO MUCH intervention, however. There is doc_mented evidence that the way modern women are being forced to labor in such high-drama with artificial settings with high-tech wires attached to their bodies have created labors where mothers push too hard because they cant' feel their contractions or the amount of force they are applying to their own rectums and v____al openings and fetal distress has been confused with normal heart tracing deviations all babies have during normal labor. I feel too, that cutting into the muscles of the lower v____al area and into the perineum have caused more problems in many cases than a spontaneous tear would (some women excluded, of course) since natural torn edges are USUALLY easier to put back together than stick straight edges. I think one of the most overlooked causes of traumatic births (either way) is the fact that we are receiving better nutrition as children (most of us on this site anyways) better prenatal care, vitamins and abundant available food sources during our pregnancies and thus our babies heads and sizes are outpacing our capacities to deliver them. Many physicians I know agree, however, that it is inductions, interventions, epidurals and flat-back labor that have caused most birth problems and damage. This of course, is not to say that those very same things SAVE lives too, but for the normal, healthy woman, those things are a barometer for trouble. They also have pointed out that they are starting to see a great increase in women needing additional pelvic surgery and/or abdominal/hysterctomy surgery after c-sections both elective and urgent. So what do we as women do? I don't think there is an easy answer. Good luck, poster, I hope they find some way to eventually fix you.

You know it is funny everytime I read one of these c-sections vs v____al forums. Everyone wants their opinion to put out but it seems that most of the people do not want to hear anyone elses. I just want to say that the opinion that I am about to express is not meant to hurt anyone at all. I think the reason why v____al births are called natural is because once upon a time they were. Also, because they come out of something that was created by "mother nature". People have done so much research on how many people have had to go through the surgical v____al cut, but I think that people should do research on how many people have DIED many years ago because no one thought to cut the women. I know that non-surgical tears can occur, but there are instances when they are not enough. I understand about the quality of life issue, but imagine what kind of quality of life can you have if you or baby is not alive. I know that soooooo many women have had to be cut, however, triple, quaduple times that have not had to be cut. Can we look on the positive? The next thing is when it comes down to c-sections, they have saved so many lives, including mine. My son got stuck while I was 8cm stuck and he could not come out. I was not even in a position where my v____a could have been cut and him pushed out. If not for the miracle of c-sections, me and my baby would have died, and that is a fact. I think we look at medical advances and frown on them sometimes when they are and can be a blessing. Sometimes blessings do not come in the form that you think that they should. During my c-section recovery I felt cheated because I did not give birth v____ally until I realized how close to death the both of us came. For the woman who posted and had to be cut and still have problems, just imagine for one minute that cutting your v____a was not an option and the doctor just looked at you and told you that there was nothing that he could do. That is what used to happen in the pa__s. Honey, you say that your life has been ruined, but remember that you still have life, you and your little one. Godspeed and I hope that all works well with your body.

Yes, I should be happy that my baby and I are alive even though I had to be severely cut and it ended up affecting my quality of life. Believe me I am happy that we are both alive. But you cannot blame a woman for thinking that a c-section may have spared her the damage the v____al birth caused, even if a c-section would have given her a whole other set of problems. I am glad that a c-section saved both you and your baby.